RE: CFSE - more discussion points

From: Gerhard Nebe-von-Caron (Gerhard.Nebe-von-Caron@Unilever.com)
Date: Fri Nov 16 2001 - 13:10:26 EST


Dear Andrea

Just to state that I do not want to insult any one and any manufacturer and try
not to come over as arrogant....(how many disclaimers should I try?)

In line with Mario Roedere's recent comments,  your question should not arise,
as clearly you must have a local flow jock or core manager that should help you
to set up your instrument correctly and check those problems out, in particular
as you seem to have access to several instruments you clearly must have the
local expertise to solve such problem.

I hope this will stir a few more thoughts on the problem we try to tackle with
the data presentation and -far more important- data interpretation. As complex
as a cytometer is, you can drive it without a licence. If cytometry is used for
"research only" it's failed application does not  necessary endanger human life
directly (ignoring Mario's blood pressure). Also I do not want to drive in a
formula1 race or fly a jumbo--- but that diverts too far.

I find myself quite often these days asking people to contact their local
experts, in particular if their questions show a lack of knowledge on basic
principles of cytometry or the complexity of the problem is bigger than what
can be said in a couple of lines. If the people are meant to be the local
experts themselves, then they should consider careful reading and going on a
good flow course to ensure they get the basics as this mailing list (probably
the must helpful and informative mailing list on the web) does not replace a
fundamental training in cytometry. Perhaps as peer reviewers as much as much as
members of this list we should sometimes speak out such recommendations, but
better in private than publicly ridiculing someone else.

Now in this case Andrea has shown good observatory skills and a valid
scientific approach of comparing measurements in different instruments. From
here I can neither comment on the state on the instruments, the amplifier
voltage settings, the use of signal off-sets, filter combinations etc.pp..
However, a lot of us will be tempted to try and resolve the problem - as we are
a very helpful bunch and probably all been stuck in similar situations
ourselves before?. The fact that she contacts the mailing list indicates to me
that it is sometimes easier to get local access to another instrument than
local technical expertise.  Now that problem will not be solved by discussing
data presentation in published papers and is probably what the old-timers (I
think I am more a TOG judging by the accumulation of senior moments) try to
indicate in their approach.

As Howard said quite rightly, in most cases bad flow data do not put the
conclusion of a paper in question. However, if that is the case, then most
papers have a good tradition of publishing letters to the editor in order to
rectify such incidents.

Regards

Gerhard



-----Original Message-----
From:	Andrea Dewar [SMTP:andrea.dewar@imvs.sa.gov.au]
Sent:	Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:58 AM
To:	Cytometry Mailing List
Subject:	CFSE Compensation Problem


Hi there.

I'm having a big problem with compensating cells double
stained with CFSE (FITC) and PE on our Coulter flow
cytometer. On a dot-plot, to bring single stained CFSE
cells into the 1st decade of the scale, 75% or more of
my cells slam against the axis before the remaining 25%
of cells are pulled into the first decade region.

When my cells are counter stained with a PE antibody,
the majority of negative cells are still slammed onto
the axis, so that if you don't look closely, you can't
see these cells and all events appear to be double
positive (whereas at least 25% of the cells are
actually negative).

This is a problem specific to the Coulter machine as
the same cells were run on a BD machine. The cells did
not slam into the axis when compensated on the BD
machine.

The level of compensation used on the Coulter machine
is not high (28.1) and the problem is not becuase the
cells are stained too brightly (the problem still
occurs when the cells are sitting at 2000).

Any suggestions would be thoroughly appreciated.

Andrea Dewar

PhD Student
Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science
Adelaide
South Australia
AUSTRALIA



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