RE: Do your have any DIVA problems?

In defense of the DIVA software I would like to point out a few things.  You  can collect
more than 100k per tube.  The limit is the total amount per experiment.  I have not met
that limit.  I am cautious of the large data file generated though.  I make sure that
threshold is as high as possible if storing all the data.  If possible I store gated
material usually storing only live cells or CD45 pos cells. Only store parameters needed.
 All of this cuts down on the total stored info.

We can always find the bad in software, but believe me what we have now is much better
than what use to exist.  Talk to those who remember  the Coulter Terak system or the Easy
88.  Those of us in the BD realm remember the HP system.  Diva has its problems but you I
have to admit being able to change parameter labels , file names and duplicate
experiments and create templates , create my own keywords, adjust compensation post
collection, etc. is far better than CellQuest ever went.

We able to run and analyze an 8 tube 8 color experiment while collecting well over 100k
-200k per tube and have it on paper in less than 30 minutes by using setup templates that
are pre labeled and have matching outputs for each tube.  Works like a charm.

Sorry if this sounds like a commercial for BD.	I have never let limitations in software
stop me from getting the job done. The beauty of flow is that there is always a way.

Jim Houston 

> ----------
> From: 	Fischer, Randy (NIH/NIAMS)
> Sent: 	Tuesday, October 19, 2004 8:56 AM
> To:	Cytometry Mailing List
> Subject:	RE: Do your have any DIVA problems?
> 
> Obviously I missed this when it first came out, but is it true the LSRII
> with the DiVa is limited to collecting 100K events/tube?  Mario and Steve,
> you guys are doing >14 colors per tube, and statistically, small populations
> could not be acquired in enough numbers with this limitation. As you two
> provide the impetus for the rest of us to push the frontiers with huge
> polychomatic experiments, how does this work? Or do you just limit your
> experiments to a few tubes?
> 
> I do find it hard to believe BD would not have addressed this problem before
> now, it was a problem with the original DiVa unit we had (gone now).
> 
> Randy T. Fischer
> NIH/NIAMS
> Building 10, Room 6D50
> 9000 Rockville Pike
> Bethesda, MD 20892
> (301) 594-3537
> fischer1@mail.nih.gov
> 
> > ----------
> > From:	Christopher A. Worth
> > Sent:	Friday, October 15, 2004 4:12 PM
> > To: cytometry@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu
> > Subject:	RE: Do your have any DIVA problems?
> > 
> > 
> > That sounds like a plan.
> > 
> > Customer 'our cytometer that you built isn't working right with our
> > experiments"
> > 
> > Vendor 'your experiments aren't working right with OUR cytometer.'
> > 
> > Customer 'hmmmm.... what to do? '
> > 
> > Vendor 'change your experiments!'
> > 
> > Customer 'or I could change vendors'
> > 
> > sounds simple enough to me.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --Original Message Text---
> > From: Akos Szilvasi
> > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:12:39 -0400
> > 
> > 
> > I pasted below a response to our Diva problems. 
> > 
> > In short there are some serious limitations "built in" to Diva that
> > renders the LSR II to a less than perfect cytometer. 100,000 event limit
> > is unacceptable for any cytometer. Especially not for one that can collect
> > over a dozen parameters. If you apply complex gating to your analyses, run
> > an Indo-1 Ca++ flux experiment or go after rare events you may need more
> > than one or two hundred thousand cells collected. The recommended 50
> > tube/experiment is a new feature I have not seen in the color catalog I
> > received. I guess the delay of the HTS's release for LSR II is due to a
> > shortage of 50 well Falcon plates. 
> > 
> > What is the solution? We are very interested in BD's official response. We
> > are about to buy three more of the new BD cytometers. > 
> > 
> > Akos 
> > 
> > .............................................................. 
> > 
> > As a general rule, when collecting 10 parameters per Tube, approximately
> > 50
> > Tubes per Experiment can be recorded with 100,000 events per Tube.
> > Collecting more parameters (such as Area and Height) or having multiple
> > gates decreases the number of Tubes to 25 or fewer per Experiment. To save
> > memory (and disk space for permanent storage), save only parameters that
> > are being used.
> > 
> > . once they notice that Diva is slowing down,
> > that's a sign that their open Experiment is getting too large and they
> > should split it up into smaller experiments. They should also check the
> > size of their database and clean it out on a regular basis.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>