From: David.C.McFarland@gsk.com
Date: Tue Feb 25 2003 - 10:20:30 EST
Phil,
I wanted to add some comments to your thread. I was once approached about
sorting replication deficient HIV infected samples. The investigator
harped on about the fact that "no one has ever gotten infected from sort
aerosols" and "HIV isn't an airborne virus" and "What's the big deal, its
replication defective" and "What's your problem, we did this at my
previous institution". My position is that this attitude is was a little
too cavalier for my taste and I agree with your stance on universal
precaution. As Paul pointed out, sometimes these investigators try to
bully operators into doing something they really don't want to do. That's
a terrible position to be in. Luckily, my supervisor supported my point
of view. (As an aside, I certainly don't claim to be a virologist, but
can't a replication deficient virus become competent if the host is
co-infected with another competent virus?)
I also interviewed for a position where they sorted stem cells from bone
marrow basically around the clock. Their starting material was unscreened
human bone marrow from compensated donors. I asked what type of safety
procedures were in place and the reply was "You can wear gloves if you
want." I am not making this up! I suggested (nicely) that maybe they
should be a little more careful working with human tissue of unknown
origin. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised when I was told: "I've
been doing it this way forever and no one has ever got sick from sorting
this stuff." Needless to say, I didn't take the job. I feel sorry for
the person that did, especially if they didn't know what they were getting
themselves into.
Like anything else, I think the problem is ignorance. These investigators
need to be taught the hows and whys of doing this type of research.
Unfortunately, people that already have advanced degrees sometimes don't
feel the need to learn anything new. (Those of you with the advanced
degrees that relish learning something new everyday, please don't be
offended. I'm not implying this is the norm.) That being said, you have
no idea how many times I hear "That's the way I've always done it." I'm
sure every flow operator has at one time or another. I then like to point
out something that an experienced med tech once told me: "Yeah, and I used
to mouth pipette blood."
Scientists need to remember: Science is not static. Dogma changes
periodically. Never say never. There's always a better way.
Of course, this is just one opinionated man's opinion.
Dave
David McFarland
GlaxoSmithKline
----- Forwarded by David C McFarland/DEV/PHRD/SB_PLC on 25-Feb-2003 09:20
-----
"McCoy, J. Philip (NIH/NHLBI)" <McCoyJ@nhlbi.nih.gov>
21-Feb-2003 16:07
To: "Cytometry Mailing List"
cc:
Subject: RE: Sorting live human lymphocytes
This post got me thinking a bit about this topic. Does anyone have any
first hand knowledge of an operator being infected from doing a sort of
human material? While I certainly advise universal precautions when
handling
human specimens, I am not aware of any documented sort-related infections
in
my 25 years of doing flow. If there are some, I think it would make an
interesting, and much needed, CDC report.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: J.Paul Robinson
To: cyto-inbox
Sent: 2/19/2003 9:04 PM
Subject: Sorting live human lymphocytes
Colleagues:
I would like to get input into the following issue - this has been
discussed
before, but I would like to put this topic into the summary page and I
also
need some advice.
There is a faculty member here who is insisting on sorting live human
lymphocytes from untested patients. His argument is that these are from
children or teenagers and therefore a low-risk group. He obtains the
mateirals
from a clinic and claims that he has no time to test the samples.
He is unbelievably insistent (my techs say he is rude and obnoxious) and
is
very upset that I have told him that I need some time to research this
issue to
see what we should do. Even after I stopped a sort from taking place
instructing my technicans not to sort the cells, he tried to convince
them to
sort after I left for a meeting!!
He claims that he has done dozens of similar live human sorts at several
major institutions (I am checking so I won't list the institutions
here!)
He claims that "many of the major papers in the immunology literature
sort live
human lymphocytes, so why can't you do that here? Other institutions do
it all
the time...."
Has anyone actually tracked the number of such sorts?
So my questions are the following:
1. What is your institution/lab policy on sorting live human materials?
2. Does your institution list this policy on a web site
3. How many of these sorts do you do?
4. Do any of you have obnoxious faculty that treat your techs like dirt?
If not,
we have one you can have!
I will be happy to sumarize the discussion and post it to the new
summary
page at
http://www.cyto.purdue.edu/hmarchiv/cytomail.htm
"view Summaries" link
Regards
Paul Robinson
Purdue
J.Paul Robinson, PhD PH:(765)4940757
Professor of Immunopharmacology
Professor of Biomedical Engineering
Purdue University FAX:(765)4940517
EMAIL:jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu
WEB: http://www.cyto.purdue.edu
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