Sarah, I use a CD burner and it works great. Below are the responses I got from this list when I posed the same question. I hope it helps. Candace ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Feb 9, 2000 10:45 AM -0400 From: Candace Enockson <enockson@musc.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: RE: CD BURNER (fwd) (fwd) Here are the CD burner responses. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 1:18 PM -0500 From: "Martinez, Joseph" <zla0@cdc.gov> To: cyto-inbox Subject: RE: CD BURNER Hi Candace, The only problem I found was that I could not add extra SCSI controller card to our G3s as it interfered with BDs card and ended up putting it into our 7600 PowerMac. Have had no problem with skipping there. Regards, Joseph Martinez CDC Atlanta,GA > -----Original Message----- > From: Candace Enockson [SMTP:enockson@musc.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:44 AM > To: Cytometry Mailing List > Subject: CD BURNER > > > > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 1:02 PM -0600 From: Tina Rogers <Tina.Rogers@ccc.uab.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: RE: CD BURNER Candace, I have a Calibur and power macs (7600/120). I bought a LaCie that is 8x4x20, i think. I know it isn't the slowest one that they make. I have had no problems, except that every time I write a disc, I get a message that it can't run in 8x mode, but click ok and it will run in 4x. So it takes about 15 minutes to burn 650MB of data, and probably 30 minutes to verify it. The speed issue may be a formatting error on my part. I just haven't been motivated to have someone check it out. I did learn to copy the data onto the hard drive that was connected to the burner...I tried burning "indirectly" through the workstation computer and that took forever. TIna S. Rogers, Ph.D. Manager, MAMDC FACS Core Facility Division of Rheumatology University of Alabama at Birmingham 1900 University Blvd. THT 405 Birmingham, AL 35294-0006 205-934-1362 > ---------- > From: Candace Enockson > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:44 AM > To: Cytometry Mailing List > Subject: CD BURNER > > > > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 2:31 PM -0500 From: Akos_Szilvasi@biogen.com To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Hi, Candace, we used the same Mac with a Mitsubishi CD-R . We ran it at 1x when writing CDs. It wasn't very reliable. After upgrading the computer to a G3 all problems were gone. It works just fine at 2x (this is the highest speed). You always can write slower but if you upgrade your Mac the slow CD burner won't be able to take advantage of the new Mac. Buy the faster ones with a good name + the newest software (from Adaptec). Best regards, Akos Szilvasi Biogen Candace Enockson <enockson@musc.edu> on 01/25/2000 10:44:01 AM To: cyto-inbox cc: (bcc: Akos Szilvasi/Cambridge/Biogen) Subject: CD BURNER Dear Flowers, I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with which you have had success (or not!). Thanx for your responses, Candace Enockson Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 2:41 PM -0500 From: Glenn Paradis <gap@MIT.EDU> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Candace, My 4x burner lets me burn at 2x also so there will probably be no problem. You can choose the burn speed in the Adaptec Toast program if your burner allows it (i.e is compatable with 1x/2x/4x ect.) I have no problem burning at 4x with a Quadra 650 so I will be surprised if you have any problems. Glenn MIT >Dear Flowers, >I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping >some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a >Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI >since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, >8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too >slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. >Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with >which you have had success (or not!). > >Thanx for your responses, >Candace Enockson >Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 3:00 PM -0500 From: "Mark A. KuKuruga" <kukuru@umich.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Candace, I don't have a CD recorder for my MAC system yet (I'm holding out for a recommendation from BD . . .), but I have been using a Smart $ Friendly CD-Recorder (2, actually) for archiving my Elite files. I've only had one writing error to date, and I'm fairly confident it's a sped related issue. We use Adaptec's Easy CD Creator software. The instruction manual in this software suggest a speed test for the first few burning sessions . . . unfortunately, I'm one of those who never reads manuals! However, since I've allowed the software to monitor and adjust its writing speed to accommodate transfer rates, I've had no problems. Therefore, by way of advice . . . don't worry about the Recorder's speed, but be sure that the software you use can effectively monitor the data transfer rate from your disk. MAK. Candace Enockson wrote: > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina -- Mark A. KuKuruga, Managing Director University of Michigan Core Flow Cytometry <http://www.cancer.med.umich.edu/flow_cytometry> phone: 734-647-3216 fax: 734-936-7376 kukuru@umich.edu ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 3:55 PM -0600 From: "Houston, Jim " <Jim.Houston@stjude.org> To: cyto-inbox Subject: RE: CD BURNER There should be not problem. The burner moves data a lot much slower rate even at 8x than is done over the scsi line. jim -----Original Message----- From: Candace Enockson [mailto:enockson@musc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 9:44 AM To: cyto-inbox Subject: CD BURNER Dear Flowers, I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with which you have had success (or not!). Thanx for your responses, Candace Enockson Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 5:16 PM -0500 From: David Gebhard <gebhard@aecom.yu.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Hi, I started with a gray G3 and installed an external "Smart and Friendly" CD burner. It came with the Adaptec Toast software, and worked well. I have since upgraded to a Blue and White G3 and found that the USB-to-SCSI interface was slow. I got a reccomendation from the Manufacturer and installed a UltraFAST SCSI Card from Adaptec. It works well. Definately be sure that your scsi interface is fast enough. Good luck. It will be worth it! Dave G.. At 11:44 AM 01/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: > > >Dear Flowers, >I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping >some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a >Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI >since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, >8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too >slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. >Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with >which you have had success (or not!). > >Thanx for your responses, >Candace Enockson >Medical University of South Carolina > > Dave Gebhard--Director FACS Facility Albert Einstein College of Medicine Chanin Building 309 1300 Morris Park Avenue Bronx, New York 10461 718-430-2724/ 3573 FAX 718-430-8550 ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 4:18 PM -0700 From: genius <genius@nmt.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER My experience tells me that it shouldn't be a problem at all especially if the HD is SCSI as well. Candace Enockson wrote: > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 3:53 PM -0800 From: Maciej Simm <simmmmer@yahoo.com> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER I use a 4/2 external usb lacie drive which is plenty fast considering I need to backup about once every two weeks - there's not that much to burn in a flow lab :) You may get your superfast 8/4 drive and there are settings to control writing speed. So your drive will be 4x maybe. And when you get a faster computer it'll be back at 8! worthwhile investment. feel free to email me if you have other questions. ===== `---------------------------------------------` | Maciej S. Simm | 525 E 68th Street | | Research Technician | Room N-805 | | Cornell Medical Center | Tel. 212.746.3428 | `---------------------------------------------` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 6:58 PM -0500 From: Keith Bahjat <kbahjat@ufl.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Candace, Any CD-recorder can run at less than max speed. So if you buy an 8x recorder, you can run it at 2x. But you may have known that. When you get the CD-Recorder, you should also get a copy of Adaptec Toast. This will let you do a speed test to verify your max recording speed before transferring. You may have known that as well. What you may not know is problems with data corruption become more prevalent at higher speeds. So you may not even want to run at 8x. In fact, I don't know anyone who routinely runs at over 4x. I have certain CD's I burn in which accuracy is vital to their function, and I burn those at 1x or 2x. I recommend Yamaha drives, and you can find one running at 4x speeds for around $200 now. Here is a great deal, external with all the cables: http://dealmac.com/phews/artclick.php3?id=11188&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.compgee ks.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fdetails.asp%3Fcat%3DMultiMedia%26sku%3D205-4417 As for your computer speed, It will have no problem running at whatever speed you need. That has a 200 MHz 604e in it. That's a fast processor! Plus, since your Mac has SCSI (unlike most of the PC's that use IDE), your transfer rate is much higher and more consistent. So get whatever drive you want. It will run great. Good luck, and e-mail if you need help with any other Mac questions. kb -- ----------------------------------------------- Keith Bahjat Graduate Assistant University of Florida College of Medicine Gainesville, Florida kbahjat@ufl.edu > From: Candace Enockson <enockson@musc.edu> > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:44:01 -0400 > To: Cytometry Mailing List <cytometry@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu> > Subject: CD BURNER > > > > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 7:13 PM -0500 From: Chris Groves <groves@mpi.com> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Hi Candace, I have a LaCie 8x burner and I love it, albeit its attached to a G3. I'd be more concerned with my media and whether it can handle those high speeds (8x). I have yet to pass 4x. I chose a burner over a rewriter because of the cost of the media as well as the drive, also because once I've made an archive I don't want anyone to alter it. You can always add data to the cd at a later date. I got mine from pcconnection.com and have found that they have great tech support. Make sure to ask the sales rep. if the burner is compatable with SCSI as well as newer and higher bandwidth versions, which most are. You'll need to play around with different makes of disks as well as different speeds. You'll produce a number of coasters but once you get the speed and manufacturer fine tuned then you'll have reliable burning sessions. Best of luck. Chris Chris Groves Millennium Pharmaceuticals Inc. 75 Sidney Street Cambridge MA 02139 617-679-7495 groves@mpi.com Candace Enockson wrote: > Dear Flowers, > I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping > some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a > Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI > since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, > 8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too > slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. > Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with > which you have had success (or not!). > > Thanx for your responses, > Candace Enockson > Medical University of South Carolina ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thu, Jan 27, 2000 3:39 PM +1100 From: Adrian Smith <A.Smith@centenary.usyd.edu.au> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER >Dear Flowers, >I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping >some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a >Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI >since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, >8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too >slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. >Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with >which you have had success (or not!). > >Thanx for your responses, >Candace Enockson >Medical University of South Carolina I have had no problems burning at 4x times with a Yamaha 4416 on a original G3 minitower that has the same SCSI port speed as the 7300/200 (5MB/sec). I'm not sure about the relative hard disk speeds. My impression is that the size of the buffer in the CD recorder can be very important here. If you had persistent problems burning at 8x then you can always tell the recorder to burn at 4x or even 2x. Alternatively you could buy a faster SCSI card... Be aware that when you are burning CDs the computer can do nothing else. Adrian ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ****************************************************************** When you do something, you should burn yourself completely, like a good bonfire, leaving no trace of yourself. (Shunryu Suzuki) ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thu, Jan 27, 2000 9:35 AM +0100 From: Ulrich Beutner <beutner@chirurgie.uni-wuerzburg.de> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER >Dear Flowers, >I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping >some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a >Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI >since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, >8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too >slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. >Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with >which you have had success (or not!). > >Thanx for your responses, >Candace Enockson >Medical University of South Carolina Hi Candace, I guess you already made up your mind getting a CD burner. Nevertheless I just want to tell you that about 2 years ago there had been a discussion on this list for the ideal storage medium, which might be interesting for you. Then the MO drives were considered the medium of choice. We use them here and are very happy with them. They are somewhat more expensive than CDs, but much faster, more reliable (due to the design they are immune against magnetic fields a problem of all other magnetic storage media and since the disk is in a housing (compared to a CD) they are also quite resistant against scratches) and can be rewritten nearly indefinitely (I wouldn't push rewriting a CD too much). Since we do not have a CD burner just a few theoretical remarks: A standard SCSI bus can handle 5 Mb/s which is much, much faster than an 8x (writing) CD burner. Also your harddrive and your processor should outperform the CD burner by far. But then again these are theoretical consideration, in the computer industry everything is possible. (Just for comparison our MO drives work flawlessly on a Pentium 100 MHz PC with standard SCSI, which is much slower than your 7300/200) I don't have one, but CD drives from Plextor are considered by many the best available (I think also the most expensive). Sorry I could only report hearsay concerning your questions, but perhaps they might be of some help for you yours Ulrich Beutner ================================================ Ulrich Beutner, Ph.D. Chirurgische Universitätsklinik Abt.: Exp. Transplantationsimmunologie (ETI) Josef-Schneider-Str. 2 97080 Wuerzburg Germany beutner@chirurgie.uni-wuerzburg.de Tel. ++49 931 201-2252 FAX: ++49 931 201-2249 ================================================= ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 6:47 AM -0600 From: Michael Herron <herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER I am in the market for the same thing, but I was wondering if I could get a firewire CDR. Has anyone had experience with backing up data with firewire to CDR? Mike -- _________________________________________________ / Michael J. Herron / / U of MN,Medicine/Infectious Diseases / / herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu / / http://128.101.243.213 / /_____________________________________________/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 2:07 PM -0500 From: Eric Van Buren <aa9080@wayne.edu> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Candace, I've been using a Yamaha CDR400t CD burner (4x-max write speed; repackaged and sold by LaCie) for several years now. Originally it was connected to a Quadra 800 and failed to write a total of 2 times, both of which could have been avoided. But at almost $1.00 per CD-r (when you buy in bulk), it was no big loss. Now the CDR400t is connected to a G3/400 and I haven't had any failed writes, all at 4x speed. This success is probably due more to experience running the software (Toast) than to the hardware difference. The type of CD-r disks that we have the best luck with are Verbatim DataLifePlus CD-R (74min/650MB); the box says "Reorder #91224". These are "blue" disks (the side that is written to is blue). We had trouble with "gold" and "green" disks by other manufacturers. The problem was not that the CD-r's could be written, but that the CD-r's could not be mounted by other CD-ROM drives on other computers. It has been several years since we tested CD-r disks, so there may be better options available now. We bought single disks of all the types available at the time and made a test disk of each kind and tested them on as many different computers (Mac and PC) as possible. The Verbatims were the only ones that worked on every computer we had access to, so we've been using them ever since. I would suggest that you NOT use your acquisition Mac to burn CDs, for 2 reasons: (1) burning a CD ties up the Mac (and cytometer in the case of an acquisition Mac), and (2) "bad things" can happen if you put too much software on an acquisition Mac. BD recommends that all you have on your acquisition Mac is the system software and BD software in order to limit software conflicts. Good luck, Eric >Dear Flowers, >I am in the process of getting a CD Burner for data storage and am hoping >some of you have had experience with this. I have a FACSCalibur with a >Power Mac 7300/200. I am concerned about speed compatibility with the SCSI >since this is an "older" computer. There are some fast burners available, >8x4x24, but I have been cautioned that my SCSI or hard drive may be too >slow in sending info to such a fast burner and it may result in skips. >Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I would like to hear about brands with >which you have had success (or not!). > >Thanx for your responses, >Candace Enockson >Medical University of South Carolina /\/\/\_ Eric Van Buren, aa9080@wayne.edu \ \ \ Karmanos Cancer Institute and Immunology & Microbiology \_^_/ Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan, USA ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 11:45 AM -0800 From: Adam Treister <treestar@treestar.com> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER I'm waiting for the same thing. I bought a USB CDR for the Mac from Que, and had to return it because it only worked at the slowest speed. When I queried the sales rep at MacWorld, he said the FireWire is a much better product. The throughput better, and the USB standard is apparently interpreted quite differently by different vendors. His advice to me was hold out a couple months and get Firewire. Of course DVD writers are coming up soon, too, so whatever you get will be outmoded quickly. Adam Michael Herron wrote: > I am in the market for the same thing, but I was wondering if I could > get a firewire CDR. Has anyone had experience with backing up data with > firewire to CDR? > > Mike > -- > _________________________________________________ > / Michael J. Herron / > / U of MN,Medicine/Infectious Diseases / > / herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu / > / http://128.101.243.213 / > /_____________________________________________/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 1:58 AM -0500 From: Bunny Cotleur <bcotleur@ohio.net> To: cyto-inbox Subject: Re: CD BURNER Adam Treister wrote: > > I'm waiting for the same thing. I bought a USB CDR for the Mac from Que, > and had to return it because it only worked at the slowest speed. When I > queried the sales rep at MacWorld, he said the FireWire is a much better > product. > The throughput better, and the USB standard is apparently interpreted quite > differently by different vendors. His advice to me was hold out a couple > months and get Firewire. Adam (& fellow flowers)... the QPS QUE! firewire drive is slated to be shipped next week. They have 2 config's: 24x6x4 and 32x8x4, and the cheapest price I've seen is Outpost.com ($299 and $399 respectively). Both have 2mb buffers (see www.qps-inc.com for full specs). USB was never really a good choice for speedy data transfer- the hot swapping, extensive daisy chaining, and no need for termination are the only positive features (IMHO). Firewire and SCSI II are your best bets for burning, unless you have unlimited patience (as I do NOT) ;-) > Of course DVD writers are coming up soon, too, so whatever you get > will be outmoded quickly. The problem with DVD is that "industry standard" is still being determined- so if you went that way, you may not have universal access to info on the disks. Plus, at a minimum you need the special drives for reading. At least with the CD-R/RW's, you can pop them into almost all CD-ROMs. Just my 2 cents- > Adam Bunny ******************************************************* Bunny Cotleur +*+ Bunny Cotleur Cleveland Clinic Foundation *+* 2001 Lester RD Neurosciences NC30 +*+ Valley City, OH 44280 9500 Euclid Avenue *+* 330-483-4800 Cleveland, OH 44195 +*+ bcotleur@ohio.net 216-444-1164 *+* cotleua@ccf,org +*+ ******************************************************* When you do something, you should burn yourself completely, like a good bonfire, leaving no trace of yourself. (Shunryu Suzuki) ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
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