Re: SYTO red and HOECHST or DAPI

From: Howard Shapiro (hms@shapirolab.com)
Date: Thu Jun 07 2001 - 20:39:59 EST


As might be expected, Richard Haugland's posting below on the SYTO dyes is
definitive with respect to the SYTO dyes; we may have some disagreements
about pyronin (although not about it's not being specific).

>There are NO dyes that are SPECIFIC for RNA, including pyronin Y (see abstract
>below).
>
>The SYTO dyes, including the SYTO RED dyes stain both DNA and RNA. Their
>quantum yields and affinities may be different but none of the SYTO dyes are
>satisfactory for measuring one nucleic acid in the presence of any appreciable
>amounts of the other nucleic acid.
>
>One cannot use the Hoechst and DAPI dyes to "block" DNA and expect a different
>dye to then be useful to measure RNA.  Binding of these dyes is an equilibrium
>and use of excess SYTO Red would eventually displace the Hoechst dyes or DAPI
>UNLESS the affinity of that DNA stain were much higher and/or off rate was
>very slow, which it is not. I suspect that the SYTO dye may have higher
>affinity for DNA than the Hoechst dyes but do not know.
>
>The Hoechst dyes and DAPI are NOT specific for DNA either. They also bind to
>RNA but their quantum yields on RNA are significantly lower and their affinity
>for ss nucleic acids is low.
>
>The abstract

(Darzynkiewicz et al, Cytometry 1987 Mar;8(2):138-45; text omitted here)

>   indicates that it may be possible to combine Hoechst dyes and
>pyronin Y because the affinity of pyronin Y for DNA is apparently lower than
>that of the Hoechst 33342 dye.

The Hoechst/pyronin technique has been around for a while:

Shapiro HM: Flow cytometric estimation of DNA and RNA content in intact
cells stained with Hoechst 33342 and pyronin Y.  Cytometry 2:143, 1981
Crissman HA, Darzynkiewicz Z, Tobey RA, Steinkamp JA: Correlated
measurements of DNA, RNA and protein in individual cells by flow
cytometry.  Science 228:1321, 1985
Crissman HA, Darzynkiewicz Z, Tobey RA, Steinkamp JA: Normal and perturbed
Chinese hamster ovary cells: correlation of DNA, RNA and protein content by
flow cytometry.  J Cell Biol 101:141, 1985
Kapuscinski J, Darzynkiewicz Z: Interactions of pyronin Y(G) with nucleic
acids.  Cytometry 8:129-136, 1987
Darzynkiewicz Z, Kapuscinski J, Traganos F, Crissman HA: Applications of
pyronin Y in cytochemistry of nucleic acids.  Cytometry 8:138-145, 1987
Traganos F, Crissman HA, Darzynkiewicz Z: Staining with pyronin Y detects
changes in conformation of RNA during mitosis and hyperthermia of CHO
cells. Exp Cell Res 179:535-44, 1988

Darzynkiewicz et al have shown that pyronin Y bound to single stranded RNA
(which is responsible for much of the pyronin absorption when methyl green
and pyronin are used in combination for DNA/RNA staining in microscopy and
image analysis using transmitted light) is nonfluorescent.  The
fluorescence comes from pyronin bound to double-stranded RNA, and, where
dsRNA either makes up the bulk of or tracks total cellular RNA, the pyronin
is usable for quantification of RNA.

Srour and his colleagues and other stem cell researchers have used Hoechst
33342/pyronin for vital cell sorting:

Ladd AC, Pyatt R, Gothot A, Rice S, McMahel J, Traycoff CM, Srour EF:
Orderly process of sequential cytokine stimulation is required for
activation and maximal proliferation of primitive human bone marrow CD34+
hematopoietic progenitor cells residing in G0.  Blood  1997; 90:658-68.
Gothot A, Pyatt R, McMahel J, Rice S, Srour EF: Functional heterogeneity of
human CD34(+) cells isolated in subcompartments of the G0 /G1 phase of the
cell cycle.  Blood  1997; 90:4384-93.

Hoechst is not the only dye that can be used with pyronin for DNA and RNA
staining; Pollack et al used methyl green to block pyronin staining of DNA:

Pollack A, Prudhomme DL, Greenstein DB et al: Flow cytometric analysis of
RNA content in different cell populations using pyronin Y and methyl
green.  Cytometry 3:28, 1982

Toba showed that 7-aminoactinomycin D (7-AAD) could be used in combination
with pyronin to measure DNA and RNA content using only 488 nm excitation;
Schmid et al have refined this methodology:

Toba K, Winton EF, Koike T, Shibata A. Simultaneous three-color analysis of
the surface phenotype and DNA-RNA quantitation using 7-amino-actinomycin D
and pyronin Y. J Immunol Methods 1995;182:193-207.
Schmid I, Cole SW, Korin YD, Zack JA, Giorgi JV: Detection of cell cycle
subcompartments by flow cytometric estimation of DNA-RNA content in
combination with dual-color immunofluorescence. Cytometry, Cytometry 2000
Feb 1;39(2):108-16

I found that oxazine 1, a red-excited tricyclic dye with side chains
similar to those of pyronin Y, also produced a "DNA/RNA" like staining
pattern when used in combination with Hoechst 33342; however, when the
Hoechst/pyronina and Hoechst/oxazine 1 combinations were compared in fixed
cells with and without RNAse, much of the oxazine 1 fluorescence was
insensitive to RNAse treatment, while 80% or more of the pyronin
fluorescence was RNAse-sensitive.

Bottom line: I still can't figure out quite why the "DNA specific" dyes
combined with pyronin are usable for DNA/RNA content measurement.  The DNA
content measurements can be quite good in terms of low CV's; the RNA
content measurements are obviously less accurate and precise, but probably
good enough.  From what Dick Haugland has said, it probably isn't worth
attempting to substitute SYTO dyes for pyronin in a Hoechst or 7-AAD
combination, and we stand united in stating that there are no RNA-specific
dyes.

In some circumstances, especially if ribosomal RNA makes up a substantial
fraction of what you'd want to measure in a cell, it might make sense to
use a fluorescently labeled ribosomal RNA probe for quantification; these
can even be made specific to species and strains.

-Howard



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