Hello Jim and all, There does appear to be a lot of activity in the flow world centred around which high speed sorter to buy. Not only does this question come up on this list frequently but I certainly get lots of personal enquiries as I am sure that most of you with such machines do. When I reply though I always point out that the reasons why I have ended up with what I have may not be the same as anyone elses. As Joe Trotter pointed out in another message, as cytometrists, we are judged by what we produce not by the way we do it necessarily. There isn't a perfect cytometer just as there isnt a perfect car or a perfect operating system. Sometimes I think we can get blinded by the possibilities when we are after the practicalities. If you are after something that will sort a few hundred thousand transfectants, why have a high speed sorter? If you are analysing endless 4 colour tubes, why need a sorter at all? The decision making process has to be mainly influenced by the uses to which it will be put now and in the future but there are also other constraints like money and the availability and experience of operators. These things are unlikely to be the same in any two institutes so any advice has to be taken as a guide only. It is difficult also to write to this list in response to a query such as Andreas's without sounding a bit like an ad. It is human nature (and perhaps a mark of the cytometry community) that we dont diss products in an open forum (in general!). My last cytometer was a MoFlo and I bought it because it came closest to fulfilling the criteria that I wanted. If I had bought it because I thought it was the best colour or because the Lab down the road had one, I wouldn't be doing my job properly. The reasons I went for the MoFlo were ultimately two fold - the high speed aspect (Users wanting 10^6 cells of a 0.1% population) and the four way sorting (Thymic development labs). The machine, in general, does this; there have been problems (sensitivity in the far red; recovery problems; software glitches) but these havent been too bad as (a) I make sure that I speak to the manufacturers, (b) I am relatively experienced and (c) I have a Vantage as well if things go pear-shaped. If I am asked which machine to buy, all I can do is give my experiences, I wont try to sell anything, honest! I also suspect that this type of query generates a lot of off-list email as not everyone wants to go public on their experiences. Derek (As an aside, the next meeting of the London Flow Club will be discussing the pros and cons of current high speed sorters. Thats London, England, of course! There is more info on the website: http://www.icnet.uk/axp/facs/davies/flowclub.html) On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Houston, Jim wrote: > I believe this is suppose to be a none commercial exchange of information. > This response sounds like a commercial to me. > To my knowledge no other sales persons for instruments offers these > suggestions. > I have no problem in listening to the high end use of the MoFlo. Let the > users be heard without company interventions. > I understand that some feel the MoFlo is like the Porsche of the Flow > Sorter world, but you would not take a Porsche off road where you need a > Four wheel drive. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr Robert Ashcroft [mailto:cytomat@netcore.com.au] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 5:47 AM > To: cyto-inbox > Subject: RE: high speed sorter: sorting and analysis > Surely there is a message to you and all of us in the nature of the > replies > to your earlier requests, where you say "almost only MoFlo users answered" > In my simple view, "Winners like to trumpet their success, and runners up > stay silent". > Is it different for you? > > Let's ask the List again, why is no-one else responding? > On the MoFlo, there is no difference to analyzing and sorting except for a > simple tick you add to the software. But you can analyze faster once the > flow rate goes over 40,000/s, except if you are enrich sorting; but that's > another question. > > Let's refine Andreas' questions, > > SORTING > Who routinely sorts cells at flow rates above 20,000 cells/s on signals > from > two lasers? > Declare yourselves, and tell us what your REPRODUCIBLE RESULTS ARE. > Finally, are you sorting 2-Way or 4-Way? > > ANALYZING > #1 Who routinely analyzes cells at input rates above 20,000/s on signals > from two lasers? > #2 Who routinely or sometimes analyzes cells at input rates above 50,000/s > on signals from 2 lasers? > > I await the judgment of the people. > Bob Ashcroft > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Simm [mailto:simm@klin-biochem.uni-wuerzburg.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 23 February 2000 18:38 > To: Cytometry Mailing List > Subject: high speed sorter: sorting and analysis > Hello everybody, > I know that this question appears nearly all three month, > but I now have to decide which high speed sorter we > should buy. As we will have only one apparatus for both, > analysis and sorting, the decision (may be) will not be the > same as if one consider to buy a flow cytometer for > sorting purposes only. > > And as far as I know, almost only MoFlo user answered > to the last queries. > So my questions: > What is the experience with the Altra (Coulter)? I did > not hear from any experience in this list. > What is the experience with the FACS-Vantage? > >From the last queries, the MoFlo tends to be the best > sorter (but only users of the MoFlo answered!). What's the > experience with it for analysis purposes only. Is it easy to handle? > Is anybody in the flow community, who can really > compare these sorters? > Andreas ************************************************************************ Derek Davies Voice: (44) 0207 269 3394 FACS Laboratory, FAX: (44) 0207 269 3100 Imperial Cancer Research Fund, e_mail: derek.davies@icrf.icnet.uk London, UK mobile: 07790 604112 Web Page: http://www.icnet.uk/axp/facs/davies/index.html In tenebris lux *************************************************************************
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